Ep 43: Financial Planning 101: How to Find a Great Cross-border Financial Planner.
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How do you find a good financial planner?
We share personal experiences and insights on the importance of cultural sensitivity, qualifications, fee structures, and effective communication in financial advising.
These are the things you want your financial planner to have in addition to cross-border technical knowledge.
We emphasize the importance of advisors understanding their clients' unique backgrounds and financial goals, as well as the fiduciary responsibilities they hold.
This will help you find the best financial advisor for your specific situation.
Key Takeaways on finding the right advisor for your cross-border needs
Look for cultural sensitivity
Look for advisors with CFP certification for quality assurance.
Understand the fee structure.
Ensure their communication will help you understand complex financial concepts.
Ensure they are a fiduciary - put your interests first.
Agree on how you define financial success and much more.
Episode Links & Resources
Ep 37: How To Find The Right Tax Pro For Your Cross-border Needs
Ep 31" Five Important Financial Planning Questions For Foreign-Born Families
A Prospect's First Visit - Nightmare Os The Start Of Something Beautiful
Kitces: Navigating Challenges Investing For Nonimmigrant Visa Holders
Are you Tax-compliant With Your Overseas Assets? - Free Guide - Scroll to the bottom of the page.
If you'd like to work with us on your finances or taxes, check out the process
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Jane Mepham, CFP® (00:02)
We're back with another episode of the International Money Cafe, the IMC. A few weeks ago, we had a podcast dedicated to finding the right tax professional, especially for your cross border needs. In today's episode, we kind of want to compliment that and talk about how do you go about finding a great cross border financial advisor. Before we jump into the episode, I want to tell you
a quick story and the reason why, part of the reason why I became a financial planner. Now this is a very short version of it. I'm going to link to the biggest story in the podcast. Years ago, my spouse and I wanted to work with a financial advisor. And so we went looking, we were both on work visas, different work visas. We were from different countries and
We've been looking and really struggling trying to figure out how do we do this whole financial planning thing because we've been told this is how you build your American dream. We ended up with this financial advisor and it was a total disaster. We walked away from that experience completely deflated, feeling like we didn't know what we were doing. by the way, he's
He's called it us for not saving enough. He completely ignored where we were coming from. He completely ignored our immigration status. He completely ignored our cultural background. And it took us many, many years before we would go back to another financial advisor, which is kind of funny considering what I do, but this is why I do what I do. My idea was nobody should ever, ever have to go through this
process. Begin.
Manasa Nadig, EA (02:02)
Yeah, I know. The importance of being able to get to that is what makes a good financial advisor, right? But let's start off there. So today we're talking about why is it important to work with a financial advisor, one, and two, what it is
that a good financial advisor should have. What are those qualities? What are the designations and the experience that you should look for in a good financial advisor? So I was reading about this and I read that apparently there is more than 300,
thousand professionals in the financial services space. But only a third of them are actually CFP professionals. So when you are looking at this and then going by your story, you think about, wow, you know, there are so many to choose from, right? So you're
It comes down to this, well, another story that I heard of that just when you are trying to learn a language, you you are trying to learn maybe Spanish, would you go to a French tutor? No, you will go to somebody who can teach you Spanish. So it all comes down to what are you looking for in a financial advisor?
what's your issue. And that is kind of our jump off point today. So what do you think, Jane?
Jane Mepham, CFP® (04:01)
Yeah. So what you're saying is okay. And I love that story that you just gave. You definitely want somebody that can solve your problem. So when you think about financial advisors, we have financial advisors who were generalists, right? Which is fine. Okay. They may be able to solve a few of your problems, but before you start picking one,
I think what we are saying is let's understand, let's make sure you completely understand what it is that you're trying to solve. What's important to you. So are you looking for somebody that's going to help your investment portfolio grow 100 % or 20 % or whatever the number is? Are you looking for somebody that will understand you? Are you looking for somebody that will help you with your, with, with doing money for your college, your, your college kids fund?
What exactly is your problem? And if you're not sure, please make sure you pick out a professional, a financial advisor who starts by helping you understand what your issue is, right? What it is that you're looking for. So basically they'll walk you through, you let me know what you're looking for. Let's make sure we get to the same point and go from there. So I'll give you an example.
I do a lot. In fact, I do a post on Mondays called the intersection of immigration and financial planning because there's some,
Manasa Nadig, EA (05:28)
by the way, I love that. Yeah.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (05:29)
thank you. Yeah. There's some big nuances between somebody who's come to the country, for example, and is looking to do financial planning compared to somebody who grew up and all their assets, all their things, all their issues that in the U.S so the bottom line is
It's important that you understand what it is that you're looking for. And if you're not sure that this person at least has by helping you understand what it is that you're looking for. Does that make sense, Manasa?
Manasa Nadig, EA (06:01)
yeah, totally, totally. And you know, know, folks this is why I love Jane. You know, this is why I think that she is an amazing financial planner. And this
Jane Mepham, CFP® (06:14)
Thank you.
Manasa Nadig, EA (06:14)
is how we met, you know, this is, this was me out there looking for somebody who would keep all of this in mind, working with people who have a cross border
footprint, know, the ability to have that empathy and understanding towards your cultural differences and the ability to relate to that when they are looking at your finances. Because you know what, at the end of the day, all of this is always interconnected, right? Your finances play a big part in your life and
your life impacts your finances. So you just can't take those two out of the equation. They always have to be in there together. And that's how I met Jane and that's how we became friends. going off of that, know, Jane, know you already agree with me when we say, yes, you should have an empathy towards a person's cultural differences.
and know where they're coming from. But tell me something about how you or a good financial advisor in this space should be able to, or rather not a financial advisor, a person who's looking for a good financial advisor in this space, what should they look for? if you have some examples of a person that, yeah.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (07:57)
I have lots and lots of stories. I'll tell you just a few. So when I talk about being culturally sensitive, true, we're talking numbers, but as you so eloquently explained, it's not just about numbers, it's about your life. And I've had somebody say, let's not just focus on optimizing your numbers, but let's focus on optimizing your life.
your life is the total sum of you, where you're coming from, why you're here. So when I think of, for example, immigrants, we came to the U.S. for a chance at our version of the American dream, right? We really want to pursue that. It's true. We want to make money. We want to improve our lives. But a part of that is who we are, which we cannot separate from the two. So I'll give you an example. I was talking with
a prospect, I think they're from Pakistan. And he said to me, and he was a little hesitant as he was bringing this up. you know, I need to come up with I think it was something like 20, 30 K. And I'm like, sure, tell me more about it. And that's so important that we're willing to listen. And he explained, you know, he's looking to save, I think, for a wedding and right away I'm like.
I completely get it. And we actually ended up laughing about it. And what we said is, yeah, a software engineer in Silicon Valley, the parents and the family back home expects you to have a big wedding. They really don't care how much you're making. You may be able to explain that maybe you have other needs, but there's that cultural expectation that because our son is in the US and he's making a ton of money, we expect to see that. Another example,
that I see all the time. And now we've kind of coined a phrase for it is where people would say, I am my parents retirement plan. I completely get it. Your parents sent it to the U.S. for education. They put everything they had in you so you can help them also in the end. It may not be a very U.S. centric thing, but I completely get it. And those are the things that I'm talking about, being empathetic and really taking cultural differences into consideration.
Okay, let's take a quick pause and when we come back, we'll continue with addressing or talking about how you find a great cross border financial planner.
Manasa Nadig, EA (10:33)
Hi, IMC listeners, welcome back. So we are talking about how to find a good cross-border financial planner. And we just were talking about the experience that they have and the ability to empathize. And Jane did tell us some case studies about who she has worked with and why this is important. But now let's get down to
designations and licensing and qualifications, right? And there's, when you're looking at these licensing and qualifications and you just go onto Google, my God, you get hit with so many acronyms. There's CFP, there's CFA, there's CHFC, there's AAMS. know, a ton of those. So Jane, can you break that down for us, please?
Jane Mepham, CFP® (11:31)
Sure,
sure.
Manasa Nadig, EA (11:32)
Yes.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (11:33)
So one challenge is in terms of differentiating through the titles is you've mentioned a whole bunch of designations, but in terms of the actual titles, you have people that go by investment advisor, wealth manager, financial advisor, financial planner, all those. And unfortunately, our industry doesn't do a really good job of saying these are the titles we should use. So you really don't have designated industry titles.
And that's a big problem. So I think the best way to think about this and the way I look at it is at least make sure your advisor has what I call the gold standard, which is the CFP, the certified financial planner. You have others like you've mentioned, like the CFA, the Chartered Financial Analyst, you have similar. So we won't talk about all of those, but at least make sure they have the CFP, the certified financial planner. And
This is actually the number that you alluded to at the beginning where we only have about a hundred thousand CFPs in the country. And the reason why, because it's pretty tough to go through the certification and get it. It involves
Manasa Nadig, EA (12:43)
Mm-hmm.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (12:43)
like a really series of challenging course work. Then you have to pass the CFP exams and the pass rate is something like 60%.
And then you need a minimum of three years in the advising industry, which is about 6,000 hours. And then on top of that, you'll need to adhere to a set of ethical guidelines from the CFP board. They're the ones that actually own the mark as we call it. And then on top of that, you need to complete a series of continuing education classes every year. what I'll say is start with that. Make sure the person you're talking to is at least a CFP trained.
person, have the CFP marks, right? And then there's going to be all these other designations, which will be towards specific areas. So for example, I think I wouldn't go into the other designations, but it needs to align with what it is that you're looking for. Does that answer your question at least as far as the designations are concerned, Manasa? OK, OK.
Manasa Nadig, EA (13:46)
yes, yes, definitely
Jane, yes. And going off of what you just said, let's, you know, and I think that this is kind of a touchy subject when it comes to any professional expertise, but there is also a lot of confusion around it, right? And we are talking fees. So there's the professional fees and you know, there's always,
There's so much out there again about how do you even look for someone? Can you afford that person maybe? And how do you judge how you are going to pay for that service? So if you can explain that, think that would be great for our listeners.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (14:38)
Sure. Now this is another
Manasa Nadig, EA (14:40)
Haha.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (14:41)
area that does cause a lot of confusion. The first thing you really want to think about is make sure that the advisor's fee structure or their fees are very transparent. You want them to explain to you and you want to make sure you will understand and you're okay with how the advisor is compensated or the planner is compensated. So
We have two broad categories. have fee only advisors. A fee only advisor is paid by you. So the money could be coming out of your checking account or it could be coming from them managing your assets. So that's fee only. Fee based on the other hand means they get some sort of a commission. So somebody sells you, let's say a mutual fund or insurance or some type of, let's just say some type of product.
they get a commission on that. So that's fee based where some of their fee or their compensation is coming from selling you some product. And then under the fee only model, we've now had a lot of other types of models come up. You have what's called a flat fee. You have an hourly fee. The main thing is you want to make sure that the fee structure
does not have a conflict of interest or at least has very little conflict of interest. There's always some sort of conflict of interest. Let's put it that way, which is why you want to make sure that the advisor explains that whole thing to you. So in terms of the fee, what I'll say is make sure you understand how the advisor is compensated. Make sure that aligns with what it is that you want. But it's also really important to make sure that
they will be able to address your problem. So Manasa and I talk a lot about fees and let's say in the cross border space. And sometimes we talk about you get what you pay for. So you need to make that decision. How much do you value the kind of advice, the kind of expertise that the advisor is bringing in and make sure you're okay with it. Manasa, how does that sound? Okay, okay, cool.
Manasa Nadig, EA (16:56)
Absolutely, yes. That was very,
very, very well explained. And definitely, you know, when, and this is kind of, is something that when I'm working with my clients and they have some financial questions, I always preface it with saying that I can only give them tax advice and for investment advice, they should be working with a financial.
planner. And then they may come back and then they tell me, we don't understand the fees or that they got a very salesy kind of feeling because they felt like the products were being sort of, you know,
Jane Mepham, CFP® (17:41)
Pushed.
Manasa Nadig, EA (17:41)
encouraged, coaxed better,
Jane Mepham, CFP® (17:44)
Yeah, yeah, I getcha. Yeah, yeah.
Manasa Nadig, EA (17:46)
you know. So those are definitely some things that transparency is good as like you said. Now,
Moving to the next thing that, you know, and here I quote my father. He says, to be a true master of what you know, you should have the ability to teach it, you know, as if you are teaching it to a 10-year-old maybe, you know. So going off of that, how important do you think are
strong communication skills, Jane.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (18:24)
You
Manasa Nadig, EA (18:25)
And let's talk about that a little bit. Yes.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (18:28)
think that is everything. A good advisor should be able to explain complex financial concepts in a way that you completely understand. So one thing I keep saying is when we first come to the country, we already feel out of place, let's say, because you're new, right? And you've been told you need to understand US finances, for example.
you go, start, you know, Googling and talking to different people. And a lot of it doesn't make sense. And what that tends to do, again, you have people who are brilliant, who've come to the country, they don't understand the concept. makes you start kind of doubting yourself. So as a financial advisor, now that I understand these things, I really need to break things down for you in a way that you can understand, right? So communication is everything. And a big part of communication is,
Being willing to listen. It's not me talking all the time. It's listening to your questions, asking good follow-up questions and answering those questions in a way that makes sense. So really being empathetic, being able to judge of what level I guess I need to deliver the information to you. Being responsive. And I've talked about, you know, being willing to answer.
all your questions, and I mean all your questions. Again, as we've said, finances is a big part of your life. You really cannot separate quote unquote your life from your finances. You need the two to work together. And what I find is over time, if you're doing a good job communicating, answering all the questions that the client or the prospect is asking, you end up with a great relationship. And
by us listening, you actually end up uncovering other areas that they should be working on as part of their finances. Does that answer your question, Manasa? Okay, okay. I like the word eloquent.
Manasa Nadig, EA (20:33)
yeah, very eloquently, yes.
A good talent to have for good communication skills.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (20:44)
Yes, yes.
Manasa Nadig, EA (20:45)
yes, all right. So yeah, jumping off of that, know, we obviously, both of us are in the cross border context, you know, we work with people.
either here on various different work visas, or green cards, or naturalized citizens, or foreign born nationals. And also we work with expats who have American funds and have now moved out of the country, maybe for a short period, or maybe they have retired there, or a longish period of time, however you look at it. So that kind of brings me to the
aspect of the analytical and market expertise that a good cross-border financial advisor should have. Maybe it's knowledge about immigration specifics or to even know terms like SPT or those kinds of things that we have.
we experience that, right? Like acronyms are constantly thrown at us. And then, and maybe
Jane Mepham, CFP® (22:01)
Yeah, yeah.
Manasa Nadig, EA (22:03)
even like something which somebody in a regular quote unquote place wouldn't think about is, hey, how can I repat funds? Maybe like back to that country where you are now or back to the US now if you're staying. what is...
What is this analytical and market expertise here we're talking about,
Jane Mepham, CFP® (22:27)
So I probably have a lot to say about this.
Manasa Nadig, EA (22:30)
Yes,
I know you do.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (22:32)
In terms of, when I think of expertise, you got your CFP, you already a pretty good US financial advisor. That's the way it should be. You should understand retirement. You should understand retirement accounts, tax planning, insurance, all the things that go into what we call holistic financial planning. And by holistic, I don't want to use a big word. It's all aspects of your finances. So
you really should already be good at that. Or this advisor should already be good at that. Now let's step it up a notch. You want to make sure you as a prospect that you will understand their investment philosophy. What kind of portfolios are they going to put you in? Basically, where are they going to invest your money and can they explain the reasoning behind it? Are they flexible?
in terms of putting the portfolios together. So for example, if you want to keep this individual stock that you've had, you know, because it's not time to sell it, are they willing to incorporate that into the portfolio, into what they invest your money in? Are they willing to explain expenses? So all that stuff is really, really key that you will understand and make sure you align. You want to make sure, you know, the advisor has
a deep understanding of market trends and they're able to advise you along that line. Now, one thing we always talk a lot about is we are not, I'm not the kind of advisor who's watching TV all the time and making changes based on that, which is why the investment philosophy is so key. You want to make sure they help you. What I'm looking for is
take stress out of your life, for lack of a better word, by how they help you invest. And then of course, now let's add the core cross border piece. I've had people come to me and as soon as I look at their situation, I can see where they already made a mistake or somebody made a mistake because they completely ignore the fact that this person has roots elsewhere. So for example, I'll start working with somebody and the first thing I always say is, can we talk about your
taxes the last couple of years. Can we talk about your assets overseas? And it's so many times I've had to even like refer people to Manasa to say, Manasa, this person needs some streamlined filing because they haven't been reporting their overseas stuff the last couple of years. And Manasa has seen a lot of that. So to me, in terms of expertise, it's also understanding how the U.S. interacts with whatever other country.
that you're coming from. And if not, if they're not familiar with the country, be willing to bring somebody else into that space. This podcast really is geared towards people with a foot in another country. We could probably end up linking all the episodes to this, but you understand what I'm talking about. It's key that they have that whole cross border aspect on top of the U.S. aspect. How does that sound, Manasa?
Manasa Nadig, EA (25:47)
Yeah, yeah. And really, you know, and I want to also here actually highlight the fact that Jane has written an amazing article breaking down the whole, you know, analysis of different non-immigrant work visas and how the investments change for each of them. So.
and we'll link it in our episode notes. So that's an amazing article. So that actually tells you how much knowledge a cross-border financial advisor should have about all of these immigration specifics. also,
Jane Mepham, CFP® (26:36)
Thank you.
Manasa Nadig, EA (26:37)
yes, yes. And maybe this sounds like a self-plug, but also,
make sure that they are connected with a good tax professional who also understands that. yes.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (26:51)
Yes.
Manasa Nadig, EA (26:52)
Yeah, now moving on to our next one. Like we were talking all professionals here in this cross border context, but then any professional advisor that you're working with, whether it's in the legal space or the financial space or the tax space.
should be a fiduciary, which is a someone you can trust to handle your finances. But I'll let Jane get into the weeds about that. But another one that I think is important here is the kind of the client focused approach to things. So, Jane, would you explain that and tell us how that's all connected? Yes.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (27:35)
Yeah, yeah.
And actually, I think the client focused approach that you mentioned really talks to the whole fiduciary idea. I've had people reach out and they said to me, are you fiduciary? And now I'll sometimes ask, what exactly do you mean, am I a fiduciary? So a fiduciary basically means one, the person is obligated to put your interest first.
But you don't want it to be just a legal obligation. You really want somebody that truly puts your interest first. You want somebody, again, we talked about the communication bit that listens to you, patiently answers your question. You really want to walk away being hard. And at the end of the day, whatever recommendations they make, you really want to ensure that those recommendations are in your best interest first.
And really, that's what a fiduciary means. I can give you a ton of examples, but I think we can talk about some of those examples later. Just make sure they're putting your interest first. And you can get a sense for this just by talking with them and asking them questions and just seeing how the whole process goes. I think that's all I'm going to say with this, Manasa, just looking at the clock.
Manasa Nadig, EA (28:54)
Yeah,
that's great actually, that explained it very nicely. Thank you.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (28:59)
Okay, okay.
Manasa Nadig, EA (29:00)
Yeah, and now the next one, which, sorry to borrow this cliche, which is the last but not the least. So a professional, especially in this space, a finance or taxes or legal, there's so much influx all the time.
but especially now when we are recording this podcast, we've just learned a whole lot of stuff is going to change or not change. So that brings me to this one about the necessity to have a commitment to continual learning. So I'll let you tell us about how that applies to financial professionals. Yes.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (29:50)
Yeah,
it's everything. And if you recall part of being a CFP and maintaining the certification is actually being able to complete so many CE credits every year. But you really want to go beyond that. And especially in the cross border context. for example, one thing I do is I keep up with immigration.
changes and of course right now we know there's a lot of that happening in this space. I keep up with what's happening with the tax law. Again, there's a whole lot happening in that space. for example, we all know the TCJA is going to sunset. Basically at the end of this year, if nothing has happened, God forbid you get hit by a bus, you won't be able to leave. I think we go back to 7 million instead of, you know, 13, 14 million.
That's a big change. And so we really need to keep up with what's happening in that space. The same task will admit a lot of changes to things like IRA beneficiaries, IRAs as trustors beneficiaries, like a whole bunch of technical things. Really the only way to keep up is to go and ensure you're learning a lot.
This is basically how I met Manasa. We were doing a CE thing on cross-border taxes. So it's key. And when you talk to your advisor, try and find out how they gain this knowledge. And the other part I always talk about is if they don't know something, please ensure that they're willing to say, don't know, but I'll go out and talk to somebody who knows these and bring it back to you. I think that's probably all I want to say about the continued learning. It's a lot, but you get the idea.
Manasa Nadig, EA (31:43)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. CE's, continuing education. Yeah. That's great. Now, I know I said that was last but not the least. But here's one thing that I suddenly thought about while you were talking. And I guess it sort of sums up this entire conversation really nicely, is I...
I don't know why that was, was, you know, I asked co-pilot this question. I said, what is the biggest concern that people have before they meet a financial advisor? And of course there was, it threw up, the big one was, you know, they don't think that they are rich enough or they are not there yet before they can go meet somebody, which I know that you will address that.
But another question which kind of took me by surprise was they were sort of unsure about even the need to talk to a financial planner. So let's kind of bring that together and say, how should a good cross border financial planner or any financial planner, if you think about it, how does the...
How should they measure success and how should they keep up with it for you or on your behalf?
Jane Mepham, CFP® (33:17)
That's an interesting one.
Manasa Nadig, EA (33:19)
Yeah.
Jane Mepham, CFP® (33:21)
So, okay, let me use my example in what I do. When I first meet somebody and we're talking at the beginning, I ask them, how do they define success if we work together two, three years down the road? And a lot of times it ends up being, I would have met some of my goals or I'll be on my way to meeting some of my goals.
I hear a lot about, want to make sure I'm not worrying about these things. So some of that is obviously difficult to measure. And so once you tell me how you define success, my goal is then one with you towards that thing that you want to achieve. I talk a lot about you as a prospect or as a client, you know your life best. All I can do is bring in
the technical knowledge into the relationship. You let me know what's going on on your end. I bring the technical knowledge and we marry the two together. So one thing I talk a lot about doing is when I do financial planning, I don't do a waterfall. This is from my tech days when it comes to project planning, but we do agile planning where I think we take bite-sized problems or issues.
in your situation, we solve that, right? We come up with recommendations, we implement them, and we can put that off to one side. And so anytime you look back, you're able to see this is what we've achieved. This is where I started. This is where I'm going. It's a little nuance, but it needs to align again with your values, with what it is that you want to achieve. I know that sounds a little bit.
I don't know, fluffy, but it's the only way I can think of that you've agreed this is how we'll be defining success. And as you move forward, you're able to see, yes, we are making progress. You may end up working with a planner, let's say for six months, because you just wanted help to open a college account. Just as an example, you've done that, it's done. The only thing is when it comes to financial planning, your life is constantly changing.
And you need a financial planner who's willing to be flexible and be willing to change with you. So it's important that right at the beginning, they understand again, that whole communication client focusing, they understand where you're coming from, where you want to go, taking into consideration your cultural background. And both of you agreeing, this is how we measure this, obviously.
constant communication is going to be key. I think that's all I'll say about it for now.
Manasa Nadig, EA (36:15)
Yeah, no, that was great. Actually,
Jane Mepham, CFP® (36:18)
Okay.
Manasa Nadig, EA (36:19)
yeah, yeah. So, you know, from what you were saying, I remember reading this book called The Psychology of Money. I think it's by Morgan Housel. Yeah, I
Jane Mepham, CFP® (36:28)
Great book. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Manasa Nadig, EA (36:31)
hope I said his last name right. Yeah, the very fact that there is a book called Psychology of Money tells you...
how interconnected your sentiments and your deep kind of connection to your money is. But also, I guess it takes a lot into account as far as your life, your cultural influence on that and your immigration status on top of it and your footprints in two countries and so on.
That's all what we have today, dear IMC listener, is the importance of working with a good financial planner in the cross-border context who has the ability to understand and empathize with your immigration status, your cultural background, and your goals for growing your wealth long-term and financial well-being in the short and the long-term.
and how to go about finding one who ticks all these boxes. So thank you for listening and please go to our website, theimcafe.com Please subscribe to our newsletter and you will be notified of all new episodes dropping. And if you're here, thank you so much. Take care.
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The speakers' views and opinions discussed in this episode should not be considered financial, tax, or legal advice. Consult your advisor for any legal, cross-border tax, and financial advice.